Stuff features Helen Clark in conversation with Dr Anthony Fauci

Covid-19: Anthony Fauci praises NZ but warns about the virus in chat with Helen Clark

Phillip Matthew, Oct 02 2020

Dr Anthony Fauci​ has warned former New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark​ that Covid-19 is unlike any virus he has ever seen.

Fauci, who has been director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases​ in the US since 1984, was on a video call with Clark on Tuesday.

Former Prime Minister Helen Clark has seen countries with women leaders do better in the battle against Covid-19.

“It was fantastic to hear his thinking,” Clark said. “Fauci is a legend in his own lifetime. He’s been Mr Infectious Diseases in the US for a long, long time.”

Since 1984, Fauci has dealt with HIV/Aids, Sars, Ebola, Mers and Swine Flu, but he told Clark why this pandemic was different.

“He’s never had to deal with a disease like this where you can be asymptomatic and highly infectious at the same time. This is something we haven’t experienced.”

It was the “Covid-focused” Clark’s first conversation with Fauci but she said she has followed his work for months, since she was chosen to carry out a review of the response of the World Health Organisation (WHO) to the pandemic, with former Liberian president Ellen Johnson Sirleaf​.

Clark and Sirleaf are expected to present their report to WHO in May 2021.

Fauci and Clark also discussed New Zealand’s response to Covid-19.

“He recognised New Zealand has had a successful response,” Clark said. “I made the point that we had some advantages. We’ve got a big moat around us. We’re a small country with a one-chamber parliament.”

A strong response is harder in a more complex political system like the US, where there is also a pronounced culture of individualism and free expression, she said.

Clark noted that countries that have successfully battled Covid-19 have tended to have small populations, one-chamber parliaments, women leaders and “strong social cohesion”. Along with New Zealand, she named Norway, Finland, Denmark and Iceland. Even the much more populated Germany has been successful, under Chancellor Angela Merkel​.

“Women leaders have been able to take populations with them. They can appeal to the greater good, guided by the evidence.”

The video call took place as the world passed the grim milestone of 1 million Covid-19 deaths from more than 34m cases. More than 211,000 people have died in the US. There have been 25 deaths from Covid-19 in New Zealand.

The 30-minute video call was moderated by former broadcaster Linda Clark​ for the Aspen Institute ​New Zealand.

Clark said that Fauci was confident a vaccine will be available in 2021, but it will be “a tall order” to roll it out everywhere. Clark is a strong supporter of a “people’s vaccine” that would be made available for free to everyone, rather than being left to the market.

“We have to ensure the benefits of the vaccine are widely spread,” Clark said.

While she has been busy learning about the pandemic, Clark has tested negative for the highly infectious virus. After she presented with rhinitis, her GP suggested a Covid-19 test.

Unlike others, Clark did not find the nasal swab test to be too invasive.

“I have to say I found it to be of no inconvenience. I’m a little puzzled as to why people think that.”

Covid-19: Dr Anthony Fauci 'cautiously optimistic' of coronavirus vaccine by year's end – but will New Zealand have access?

Brittney Deguara 12:00, Oct 02 2020

The United States’ leading Covid-19 expert is “cautiously optimistic” a safe and effective vaccine may arrive sooner than many predicted.

“We project that we will know whether we have a safe and effective vaccine likely by the end of this calendar year,” Dr Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, told former prime minister Helen Clark.

“I would predict November and December. It could possibly be earlier, I think that's unlikely but not impossible.”

But ensuring equitable distribution and access around the world will present one of the greatest challenges.

The US has already allocated funds to produce doses in preparation for a successful vaccine. This puts them months ahead of many countries, including New Zealand.

Fauci told Clark and journalist Linda Clark during a virtual discussion hosted by the Aspen Institute of New Zealand – which is available to view above – that the financial risks associated with preparations were worth taking.

Former Prime Minister Helen Clark and Dr Anthony Fauci, the lead member of the White House Coronavirus Taskforce in the US, discussed potential Covid-19 vaccines, misinformation and lessons to be learned from the pandemic.

“If the vaccine works you’ve saved multiple months, if it doesn’t work you’ve lost a lot of money. It’s felt that it’s worth the risk of the money,” he said.

A vaccine could start being rolled out to those classified as more vulnerable in the US – the elderly, those with pre-existing medical conditions and healthcare workers – almost immediately.

But when could it reach New Zealand? And what about poorer countries?

Clark agreed with the need to help vulnerable populations first, but hoped it would be done on a global scale. She highlighted India – which has been flagged as a Covid-19 hotspot and has recorded more than 6.3 million cases – as one country that could simply miss out if there is no equitable distribution agreement in place.

India has recorded more than 6.3 million Covid-19 cases and almost 100,000 deaths, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

This is a goal all countries needed to strive for on the basis of moral responsibility and enlightened self-interest, Fauci said.

“If you don't do that, this virus will continue to be around and it will continue to essentially threaten us.”

New Zealand has already made strides in this space and signed a $27 million agreement to guarantee Covid-19 vaccines from the global Covax facility for half of the population.

Over 36 years, Fauci has seen numerous outbreaks and pandemics. He’s aware countries don’t always work together, but was hopeful things might be different following this pandemic.

“I’ve been through multiple outbreaks because that’s my choice in life, that’s my career, my profession – going back from the early days of HIV, through the flu pandemics, Zika, Ebola, Chikungunya, West Nile virus ...

“To get someone to be preparing for something that hasn’t happened is very, very difficult. So I hope we develop this corporate memory that doesn’t disappear a year or two or three from now, and that we do remember the terrible ordeal that we’re all going through right now. This truly is historic – historic in its health implications and historic in its economic implications.”

Before Sars-CoV-2 emerged, Fauci had never seen a virus with such a wide breadth of symptoms and manifestations. The realisation that a significant portion of infected people can present no symptoms was one of the most challenging lessons.

Clark is leading a review into the World Health Organisation’s (WHO) response to the pandemic alongside former Liberian President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf​.

New Zealand’s Covid-19 response was deemed effective and public health measures have been adopted due to the government’s efforts to keep everyone informed.

She noted the effectiveness of New Zealand’s “team of 5 million” along for the journey. In comparison, looking at the response in the United States, a division has clearly formed.

“People are very engaged in wanting to be part of the solution,” Clark said of New Zealanders.

Fauci assigned the USA's struggles to his country’s multi-layered system of government, and Americans’ independent nature.

“If you have a strong adherence to a central directive, you do much better, you do much better,” Fauci said.